1. It could be said that E.M. Forster is, at least in this novel, preachy--that he spends time telling the reader the right way to behave in life. Assuming that it is true that he is preachy, can you explain how being preachy does not ruin this novel?
2. Why do you suppose Lucy tells Cecil that she is not in love with anyone else (418), if she is really in love with George Emerson?
3. The narrator says that Lucy joins the ranks of people who like Charlotte Bartlett into the army of those who have sinned against the gods of love (Eros) and wisdom (Athene) and that they will be avenged. Explain.
4. A the end of chapter 16, the narrator announces that Lucy broke off her engagement with Cecil, and then in chapter 17 presents the scene in which she does. A more conventional approach would have been to right to the break-up scene, without mentioning the end of the scene first. Why this order?
5. In what sense is Geerge Emerson responsible for Lucy's breaking up with Cecil?
5)
ReplyDeleteThe combination of Cecil's book by Mrs. Lavish (the scene where George and Lucy have their first kiss) and George and lucy's second kiss further confuse Lucy. She is storing in all of these mixed emotions concerning delicacy (what is proper- which is to marry Cecil) and beauty (George's passion for her). George's kissing Lucy puts him to fault because Lucy now feels conflicted and burdened by her cheating on Cecil and her engagement.
To go even farther, George begs Lucy not to marry Cecil because he thinks he is pretentious, materialistic, and controlling. Although he is concerned for Lucy, he is also putting on more pressure, which just frustrates Lucy more.
I think that George should not have kissed lucy the second time. If he loved her, he should have simply talked to her about what he felt, and listened to her response. The way he goes about trying to get Lucy not to marry Cecil is just inappropriate and ill timing. However, the course of love never does run smoothly, so it seems that it is OKAY that George does this. Also it adds tension into the novel and makes us want to know how the conflict will be resolved and who she will pick.
While George plays the biggest part in Lucy breaking off the engagement, Cecil also contributes. His selfish and arrogant nature fuels rage at the friendly tennis match, only to bother them further. The final straw and Lucy's affirmations occur when she tells him that they will not be getting married. While he is at first surprised, it seems to me as though he chooses to ignore it and pretend like they were never engaged. He also tries to talk about his literature further, much to the disinterest of Lucy (it is probably at this time she realizes what a life with Cecil would really be like). Then, George's role remains prominent in their break-up. Finally, as if we had been waiting for the entire novel, George discourages Lucy from marrying Cecil. He does include his wish that she think for herself and use her brain about it. I think this is important, as Lucy has become renowned for being someone that everyone wants her to be. At the end of the chapter she drops into a state of confusion. I think Daniel summed it up well by saying that these are because of recent shocks she underwent (George kissing her a second time, Charlotte's betrayal).
ReplyDeleteA the end of chapter 16, the narrator announces that Lucy broke off her engagement with Cecil, and then in chapter 17 presents the scene in which she does. A more conventional approach would have been to write the break-up scene, without mentioning the end of the scene first. Convention however is rightfully broken in this instance. I think that the narrator's announcement of Lucy's break up before the telling of the break up is quite appropriate. It seems to me that this unconventional parallels Lucy's decision to break up with Cecil. At long last, she is following her heart (beauty), and ignoring the tug of convention (delicacy). Ignoring delicacy, and passionately telling Cecil her feelings is similar to the narrator's break in convention by mentioning the break up before presenting the scene. The narrator's story telling methods enhance the drastic change Lucy is making, and the social and conventional risks she is taking. In a way the literary risk taken in these two chapters makes Lucy's risk all the more exciting and real for the reader.
ReplyDeleteI think Lucy tells cecil that she is not in love with another person because she still wants that respect from him. She does not want people talking behind her back saying she broke the compromise because of another man. This foreshadows that basically Lucy cares a lot about her reputation and what people might think about them. Cecil says "of course I don't think that. you are not that kind, Lucy". I feel she does not want to be judge, she knows that being in love with someone else, while being married was a complete error, but she couldn't control her feelings. She sort of expected that cecil would know, and to clarify the situation she decided to remark the "fact" that she was not in love with someone else
ReplyDeleteGeorge Emerson is partially responsible for Cecil and Lucy's breakup because he managed to point out the flaws in Cecil that we, as readers, observed and hated, but Lucy was too blind to see. I believe that Lucy truly wanted to love Cecil. She knew that he was a respectable choice for her and that her mother approved, and he would have provided for her and all of those niceties that used to come from set up marriages. Lucy decided to push passion out of her mind. She felt true passion for George but she decided to ignore it, because it would not be right or respectable for her to act upon it. George helped Lucy to look Cecil in the eye and see that he was trying to control her, and mold her into a form that he thought she should take. Lucy was losing herself through Cecil, and George was able to remind her of who she truly was.
ReplyDeleteWhen Lucy broke off her engagement with Cecil, she was quoting almost exactly what George had said when he was describing why they should not be married. George said that Cecil was "all right as long as he kept to things-books, pictures-but kill when he comes to people." Lucy repeats this almost exactly to Cecil's face. Each word she utters to Cecil makes her more angry and more determined to be rid of him. Lucy never loved Cecil, she loved the idea of him. George Emerson was the person to help her see that.
I think Lucy tells Cecil that she's not in love with anyone one else for, in a sense, the very reason why she has decided to break off her relations with Cecil. Lucy (rashly) interprets Cecil's remark as an accusation that the only reason she wishes to end their relationship is because Lucy has found another man (which in reality is true). BUT, this would suggest that Lucy isn't thinking for herself when making the decision to break up with Cecil, and it was the mental doing of another man working through her. So, in other words, Lucy (a woman) can't think for herself because she is a woman.
ReplyDelete3. The narrator says that Lucy joins the ranks of people who like Charlotte Bartlett into the army of those who have sinned against the gods of love (Eros) and wisdom (Athene) and that they will be avenged. Explain.
ReplyDeleteThe narrator says this quote as Lucy watches Cecil walk away from their breakup. When the narrator says this quote he means that Lucy will never be married, and that she vows never to marry again (even though she was never actually "married"). The narrator comments that Lucy, like Charlotte Bartlett, has joined the rankings of those who deny themselves their true feelings. What i mean by this is that Charlotte Bartlett is a single woman, who doesn't really listen to herself and what she wants to gain out of her life. Instead, she abides by the rules of others and is constantly being told how to live her life. Charlotte is denying herself of her natural emotion and turning her back on herself. If Lucy refuses to marry ever again, there is a definite possibility that she could start denying herself of her feelings.
I think that Lucy tells Cecil that she is not in love with anyone else because she does not want to make the matter more complicated, than it needs to be. I don't think that Lucy wants Cecil to know that George is her true love, and the main cause who makes her realize how different she is from Cecil. If Cecil knew he was being left for another man I think Lucy would have less in his mind. He even mentions that he thinks better of Lucy because he knows that Lucy is better than a person who would leave him for someone else. Lucy is still afraid of what Cecil thinks of her in his mind, even after they break-up. She still wants to be important and of significance to Cecil. I also think that if Cecil found out the truth, then he would feel much sadder and blame himself for not being good enough, which perhaps was the case, but I think Lucy is too nice of a person to want Cecil to feel that way. It seems that Lucy wants Cecil to feel that the problem isn't solely Cecil, but it is both of them together. I think Lucy wants him to believe the entire reason for the break-up is that they just don't make a suitable couple, because they are completely different people, instead of adding the fact that Lucy had a fling with George, and is still in love with him. George gives her a reason or "excuse" that is good enough to use to justify their separating, convince herself to leave Cecil, and possibly try to love George now.
ReplyDeleteI think that the author chose to -alert- the reader that Lucy decides to break off her engagement with Cecil. I think this is an alert to the reader that things are about to go as planned. The author spends a lot of time getting the reader to take George's side over Cecil's and has the reader hoping and wishing that Lucy will wake up and realize what she wants for herself. As a reader, I was expecting an exciting twist in which Lucy leaves behind society's boundaries and finally goes after her own desires. When it is said that Lucy is going to leave Cecil, it is like a great sigh of relief for the reader as well as Lucy. It's as if the author couldn't wait to share the news. I also think that Zane brought up an incredibly interesting point about how the unconventional plot order the author chose parallels Lucy's unconventional decision to finally do something for herself.
ReplyDeleteGeorge Emerson can be held very responsible for Lucy's break up with Cecil. For one thing, George is on Lucy's mind more than Cecil ever was or will be. George also has very clear differences from Cecil - he's better at being a loving friend than Cecil could ever be. He also loves Lucy a lot more than Cecil claims he does. George is full of spontaneity and passion, unlike Cecil who is still and obsessed with proper things. The fact that Lucy knows all of this deep down in her heart is enough to propel her to break off her engagement. I do think that Lucy also brakes off the engagement because she finally snapped. She'd still been growing and discovering who Lucy is. In the process, she has been constantly told how to act, what she can and can't have, who she should and should not speak with or about. Lucy had enough. I think she realizes that if she marries Cecil her life will continue on in that way forever.
I think that George is more than somewhat responsible for the breakup. He has to be at least eighty percent of the reason. It seems like an arbitrary figure, But it is merely to prove a point. I mean the man begged Lucy to break it off with Cecil, which must have confused Lucy to no end. And that was completely out of his place to do so. And the kiss? That was incredibly wrong and inappropriate of him. I don't feel bad for Cecil about this, because I do think he is a pretentious windbag, but it really just isnt fair for lucy as well. He is completely out of line. And think of how she must have felt when he did that to her. Not fair. Whatsoever.
ReplyDeleteI think that Lucy tells Cecil she is not in love with someone else because she doesn't want to make things anymore complicated then they already are. She wants to be able ti be with George without feeling guilty or making Cecil feel bad. Lucy does care alot about what people think of her, but she knows that this is the only way she will happy. She wouldn't want Cecil to think she was with another man. But she wants to be upfront with him and tell him the real problem as well. Cecil takes it rather well actually and they seem to see each other in a better light and improves their relationship. He finally sees Lucy for who she truly is and respects her, which he wouldn't have if they had gotten married most likely.
ReplyDeleteI think Lucy tells Cecil that she is not in love with anyone else because she knows that her marriage to Cecil is what is socially accepted and what everyone else wants to see. If she brings George into the picture, it complicates things and would upset everyone. This way, it is also easier to convince herself that she is no longer in love with George by completely ignoring him and the feelings she has for him.
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