1. George decides to walk all the way home from the outing on the Fiesole. How might we interpret his doing so? What might it say about George, or tell us about him?
2. On p. 339, Miss Bartlett asks what Lucy would have done (after George kisses her) if Miss Bartlett hadn't appeared on the scene. Lucy answers "I can't think" twice, and then, further pressed by Miss Bartlett, decides "not to think what she would have done." Comment.
3. Does Miss Bartlett become a more sympathetic character at the bottom of p. 340 ("Dearest Lucy, how will you ever forgive me?")
4. P. 342: "Lucy was suffering from the most grievous wrong which this world has yet discovered: diplomatic advantage had been taken of her sincerity, of her craving for sympathy and love." Can you explain what the narrator is saying here?
5. What happens at the end of chapter seven, from the time George shows up at the pension?
6. If none of the above works for you, make your own comment, or ask a question.
I don't think that Miss Bartlett becomes a more sympathetic character at the bottom of p. 340 ("Dearest Lucy, how will you ever forgive me?"). It seems that Miss Bartlett only asks for Lucy's forgiveness because she wants Lucy to pay attention to her. Miss Bartlett yearns for attention, even superficial sympathy. By asking for forgiveness, "Miss Bartlett assumed her favorite role, that of the prematurely aged martyr," (340). A martyr is someone who displays discomfort in order to gain sympathy. Miss Bartlett is a martyr. She asks for Lucy's forgiveness not to be forgiven, but to be given a sense of meaning and justification through undeserved sympathy. Miss Bartlett, for these reasons, does not deserve the classification of a sympathetic character.
ReplyDeleteWhen Ms. Bartlett asks Lucy what she would have done after George kissed her, Lucy replies "I can't think" because she does not want to lie, nor tell the truth to her controlling supervisor. I definitely believe that Lucy fully enjoyed and in some way expected that kiss from George. Maybe Lucy would have confessed her affection and curiosity for George on the spot, had Ms. Bartlett not interfered. If she told Ms. Bartlett this, she would think that would be improper for so many reasons. This includes class difference, the English' uncomfortable attitude towards romance and emotion, and Ms. Bartlett's general disapproval. If Lucy would have lied and told Ms. Bartlett that she would have slapped the man and ran away, (or something of that matter) she would be putting George into more uncomfortable disapproval and danger. I also do not think Lucy is a lying "type" of person. Her actions always appear to be very honest and pure. If she lied, she would be disrespecting Ms. Bartlett, and her own feelings. I believe Lucy picked the right thing to do - stay silent and strong.
ReplyDeleteIn this chapter Charlotte is making a big of a deal of what happened in the previous chapter. Charlotte's biggest concern is to take perfect care of lucy, since she was payed by her parents to go to this trip and that is why she is making a big caos about this scene. She feels as lucy's protector and does not want anything bad to happen to her. She is worried that George might say something about the kiss and this makes her very nervous because this is a way she could loose lucy's parents trust.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Bartlett asks Lucy what she would have done if she had not arrived to break up the kiss in the violate pasture. Lucy doesn’t know, and therefore cannot provide an answer. This is an interesting question of Charlotte Bartlett because it is a "what if" question about possibility and what would have happened if she had let Lucy and George stay together in the field. I think that it is evident throughout this chapter that Lucy is longing to be loved by someone. For this reason, i feel as though there is a true spark between Lucy and George Emerson even if they feel the need to conceal it all the time. Charlotte however, just feels the need to protect Lucy from men and keep her safe. She feels as though it is her job to watch lucy on this vacation 24-7 because that is what she was sent to do.
ReplyDeleteLucy longs to understand herself, but Charlotte is too cought up in appearances and class to let Lucy do this. Lucy feels cold and helpless because of this attitude towards her....which is extremely prevalent when Mrs. Bartlett asks her what she would have done had she not shown up and broken up the kiss. Charlotte wants Lucy to really love her but she knows that Lucy's love is non existent. Instead, Lucy's attitude toward Charlotte is more of a desire for sympathy. Unfortunately, Charlotte seems to gain control over practically everything in the chapter and unfortunately this leads Lucy and George to remain separated. It also leads Charlotte unsure of what she wants, and confused about Charlottes control over her.
I don't rightly understand the relationship between Charlotte and Lucy. Charlotte is basically being paid to watch over Lucy, and yet she has almost complete control over her. Lucy does not make her own decisions, she feels the need to receive permission from Charlotte to do anything for herself. Miss Bartlett does not even pay much attention to Lucy, and instead becomes friends with Miss Lavish and goes galavanting around the city. Who is to say that Lucy cannot kiss George if that's what she wishes? Why should she have to be whisked away to Rome so that she does not see George again? Lucy needs to stand up for herself in these situations. She knows what she wants, but she won't admit it to herself because she believes it to be wrong. The people who have control over her life are toxic to her decisions. Lucy could be a strong, independent individual. In her heart of hearts, she is such. But, she is too obedient, and her superiors take advantage of this.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Miss Bartlett becomes a more sympathetic character at the bottom of p. 340. I would appear that she only apologizes to get more attention from Lucy. She doesn't want Lucy to be angry at her because it will annoy her, not out of concern for Lucy's feelings. Miss Bartlett trys to get attention in any way she can. Even if it is bad attention she still seems to want it anyway and this is a classic example of that. She is drawing attention to something she did wrong. She is apologizing but in a very dramatic manner.
ReplyDeleteOn page 342, I think that the narrator is commenting on how Lucy just realizes/feels like she is used by George Emerson. My thoughts are that she thinks that George kisses her, and likes her because she is from a higher social class, she is a kind, and passionate person, but not because he truly loves her. Otherwise, he would handle situations with Lucy much differently. More importantly I think that Lucy feels used by Miss Bartlett. I think this is true because Miss Bartlett thinks that Lucy "loves" her only because she wants love in her life, and she wants to receive affectionate emotions, however, not because she really cares about Miss Bartlett. Miss Bartlett does try to hide these harsh emotions and opinions. In truth, I'm not sure how Lucy feels about Miss Bartlett, but she at least makes an effort to be in denial about Miss Bartlett's truthful emotions towards Lucy. Lucy gets a hint that Miss Bartlett is being somewhat fake about her feelings, but she tries to indirectly get Miss Bartlett to say that she loves her. In summary, I really believe that Lucy is craving someone in her life who will love her, and accept her for exactly who she is. She wants someone who will appreciate her character, and someone who will take her world from black-and-white into color. In result, she is deciding to close herself off even more to risky emotions such as love, sympathy, and intimacy. pg. 342- "She had worked like a great artist; for a time--indeed, for years--she had been meaningless, but at the end there was presented to the girl the complete picture of a cheerless, loveless world in which the young rush to destruction until they learn better--a shamefaced world of precautions and barriers which may avert evil, but which do not seem to bring good..."
ReplyDeleteNone of these questions posed, or points up for discussions really spoke to me, but I did have a question. A question, but also an observation. On the very first page, Forster writes, "Pan had been amongst them-not the great god Pan who had been buried these two thousand years, but the little god Pan, who presides over social contretemps and unsuccessful picnics." I was intrigued that Forster brought up the Greek god Pan, but then quickly dismissed him. I didn't think that the gods of Greece would influence this story. Then I was wondering, because I have never heard of the "little god" Pan, and didn't know what this was a reference to.
ReplyDeleteI think it's fairly clear why Lucy wouldn't want to think on, or say, what she may have done if she wasn't interrupted by Mrs. Bartlett. This is because Mrs. Bartlett wouldn't like what she would say, and Lucy probably wouldn't either. I believe Lucy would have continued to kiss George. This of course is against the social codes that this pair of star-crossed lovers lives by, because their of different classes. I believe that one of the sub-plots of this novel is a narrative of the coming of age of a young girl (Lucy) and her desperate fight within herself and her world for love (George).
ReplyDeleteMy original post was delete because i tried to post it past 12pm. This one is a disgrace.